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Author Topic: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."  (Read 2488 times)

Offline The Shoctor

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Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« on: December 12, 2013, 10:56:53 AM »
A couple of us thought that I should make this a post in general and sticky it. These are my current thoughts on cash prizes and I wouldn't mind using this thread for feedback. I would appreciate if it was kept on topic and every keep it civil.

Oh the stream of "no cash prizes."
We are in a tough spot for cash prizes.

1. We don't want to run afoul of LANFest rules.
2. We don't want to run afoul of PA laws. (Though 99% sure it's ok.)
3. We just want to make sure since we run this as a charitable org and till 100% confidence it's not worth the chance for us.
4. We've been a casual friendly LAN since inception over a decade ago.
5. Being a casual LAN we want to give everyone a chance to compete.

The community that's driven by cash alone has been over all terrible. As individuals they could be fine but as a pack some of the worst. We've had people pack up and leave after they lose out of their tournament. They didn't even wait for prize drawings. (The stuff EVERYONE has a chance of winning.)

We are a completely volunteer staff and we do this because it's something we enjoy but being browbeaten by kids who think they are hot Crap because of a video game gets old in a hurry. You add money to this equation and I am pretty sure it will only get worse. (Though, I love being proven wrong.)

That being said, I would be more likely to be for cash prizes if a couple conditions were met.

1. The community actually be respectful to one another. This is an in person face to face event not some forum.
2. If there is a true desire for cash prizes petition us by attending and talking to us.*
3. We are 100% above board with PA law and if it's a LANFest event they green-light it.


*This footnote is about attending and talking to us. Show us there is competition! In the past there always seemed to be a team in each tournament that was much better than any other team and it becomes apparent pretty quick. And it doesn't seem like there would be enough interest in a paid and unpaid tournament and if it switched over to paid totally I think it would alienate people who just want to have fun.

Would you want to pay to play in a completely unbalanced (team skill wise) tournament? (Do you like throwing money away?) Because I think that's how many would feel. I would rather have open tournaments to get more people involved.

You can't grow a community if the barrier for entry is set too high.

[I apologize if it seems I am ranting at rather than to you. I just keep seeing it over and over again.]
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 11:05:06 AM by Czar »

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Offline Czar

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2013, 11:04:45 AM »
I am interested in hearing the community's feedback on that. And specifically WHO from the community comments. I'm not sure if anyone even notices, but when I sit out at the registration desk every February, I try to call as many of you by your handle as possible as you approach the desk before you even identify yourself.

We have a very strong following here at FITES and we are beyond thankful for it and for you.

Offline MahoneyRed

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2013, 11:32:45 AM »
As someone that started putting out feelers for cash prizes I'll chime in with my research on the topic.

  • Cash prizes are okay by PA law. I looked into this and cash prizes for this are fine with no worry of running afoul of regulation, until you hit a point where the payout is deemed taxable. At that point it's no worry of FITES in paying any extra taxes, but the winner will have to pay taxes on that cash prize.

    It's hard to say exactly what that cut off amount is because game tournaments are considered not similar to something like a poker or gambling tournament. Avoiding the legal debate, let's just say any cash prize may need to be kept small.

  • Are cash prizes worth it? Just because there is a cash prize doesn't mean it is worth the time and effort to get it. I've already pointed out that cash prizes may need to be small at first. For some of our attendees that wouldn't even cover travel expenses, let alone lodging and food for the weekend.

  • Cash prizes take a lot of work. Essentially the gaming community is asking for our organization to make it rain dolla dolla bills out of the sky that we pull from a giant sack of money. Well it takes a lot of leg work to get those prizes and we need to put on an event that will get sponsors to shell out the cash.

    There are work arounds to this, but once again it involves reducing the overall cash prize and trying to get sponsors to work with teams in covering their expenses. But that's less cash in a player's hand at the end.

  • FITES is a non-profit. The primary goal of FITES as a non-profit is to benefit our community through charitable donation. That is an attraction to some of our sponsors. It may not sit well with them, and the general public, if we tell people we donate proceeds from our events, but then make these pay outs to players. It would require us to make some changes in how we conduct our business.


And here is some other less structured ranting. I would love to see a cash prize tournament. I feel like it would make for an exciting and different form of event that would showcase some awesome gaming skill, but I don't think it would be the magical trip to a wad of cash that most players think it is.

For the number of players I see complaining about a need for a cash prize you would think there are tens of thousands of gamers that pay their rent by playing Counter Strike. I know that's not true, and so do you. What are all these gamers going to say when there are only about 15 people getting a cash prize? Will we be inundated with complaints that we didn't offer enough cash to everyone?

And to make a cash prize event really worth the effort and time it would need to be handled a little differently than, here comes any old Joe. It wouldn't be fair to the competitors, attendees, and anyone watching on a stream to have a tournament filled with scrubs and only two to three good teams. It would have to start almost as an invite event.

There's a lot to be said on this topic, and it's still something I work towards, but for now it would involve MASSIVE changes to how FITES operates, what the costs are, and how much work would need to be put into it.
Eventually something cool will go in here. It's a matter of time.

Offline decepticon

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 07:56:34 AM »
For the number of players I see complaining about a need for a cash prize you would think there are tens of thousands of gamers that pay their rent by playing Counter Strike. I know that's not true, and so do you. What are all these gamers going to say when there are only about 15 people getting a cash prize? Will we be inundated with complaints that we didn't offer enough cash to everyone?

QFT!
That's Mr. Deception to you.

Offline vincegun

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2013, 08:23:32 AM »
I don't participate in the tourneys with you all cuz I really don't feel the urge to (and I know I'd get owned pretty f'n hard), but I'm just going to go with a gut feeling and say that if the move to include cash prizes was put into play then something would change. I don't know what, nor can I fully explain what I'm feeling, but it would/could take a little bit away from the fun and casual atmosphere that the 200's and 250's have outright exuded the instant one steps through the big doors.

Of course, I could be wrong and it could all be the metaphorical bag of cocaine that really gets the party started.

Eh.
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Offline MahoneyRed

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2013, 08:48:42 AM »
In the background there have been discussions about this and it was immediately acknowledged that any move to a cash prize type of event would need to be handled very carefully. We never want to get rid of, or do anything that would impact our already existing LAN structure. We all have way too much fun.

If there were to be a more competitive style event it would have to be its own separate and distinct thing, and special care would need to be taken to highlight to the community that our normal LANs are not going away. But these are minor discussions, and nothing is moving on that front.
Eventually something cool will go in here. It's a matter of time.

Offline Hateplow

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2013, 08:53:55 AM »
Every successful LAN organization that I have been a part of has only had sponsored prizes specifically for tournaments.  Cash prizes are going to attract the wrong crowd.  LAN is about fun, when you throw money into the equation, it becomes a job...  I would rather win gear anyway!

Offline endlessragdoll

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2014, 11:11:11 PM »
Every successful LAN organization that I have been a part of has only had sponsored prizes specifically for tournaments.  Cash prizes are going to attract the wrong crowd.  LAN is about fun, when you throw money into the equation, it becomes a job...  I would rather win gear anyway!

This is backed by myself.

Offline Mangos

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2014, 06:26:51 PM »
In the past there always seemed to be a team in each tournament that was much better than any other team and it becomes apparent pretty quick.

As a member of one of the groups that has the higher gaming "ability", I would oppose the move for cash prizes. We play to have fun, and love going to the LANs every year.

I am interested in hearing the community's feedback on that. And specifically WHO from the community comments. I'm not sure if anyone even notices, but when I sit out at the registration desk every February, I try to call as many of you by your handle as possible as you approach the desk before you even identify yourself.

MANGOS REPORTING FOR DUTY!

Every successful LAN organization that I have been a part of has only had sponsored prizes specifically for tournaments.  Cash prizes are going to attract the wrong crowd.  LAN is about fun, when you throw money into the equation, it becomes a job...  I would rather win gear anyway!

Exactly. +1
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Offline pittstonjoma

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2016, 06:58:02 PM »
Gear is fine. I don't really see the need for cash prizes.
Gamer since 1995
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Offline Czar

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2016, 07:09:37 PM »

Offline h4gg4rd

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2016, 08:06:07 PM »
I dont think thread necro etiquette applies to a sticky.
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Offline shank

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Re: Thoughts on "No Cash Prizes."
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2017, 11:05:56 AM »
I dont think thread necro etiquette applies to a sticky.

...or does it? :nana: